xc 75 eurotechni 30*3

[cardoso5fr]

alors que le D2 c'est bien... contrairement au deux autre...

Rigolo je préfère grandement le 14c28N au D2

[G-M]

Non mais il vous fait marcher les gars hein

[denis13]

Ah et puis tant que j'y suis (je fais ma lettre au père Noêl ) Si vous pouvez nous procurer du xc100 en 3mm, je crois que ça intéresserais beaucoup de monde.

[Madnumforce]

Et des barres plates de 100c6 ?

Ya Abrams. Mais bon, là au niveau des prix, ils abusent.
https://shop.premium-steel.eu/fr_fr/catalog/category/view/id/141
Leur fiche technique:
http://www.aciers-premium.fr/images/filedownloads/fichestechniques/102C6.pdf

[denis13]

j y ai jeté un oeil il y a peu pour du 100c6 justement ..c est pas donné , et les frais de ports en plus

[NicolasW]

http://tienda.suministrosparacuchillos. … x40x1000mm

[giom]

Le plus economique reste la recup de cages de roulements

[cassca]

le mieux c'est quand meme de prendre un autre acier hein.. .

[denis13]

voila.. du xc 100 en 3mm par exemple..

[cassca]

Pour de vrais, c'est bien moins chiant à tremper , tu sais faire de chouettes lignes de termpe. Et ca coupe bien.

[ASR]

comme disait chez plus qui normalement, t'en as pour ton argent

vient de recevoir du D2, 15N20, le mythique XC75 et d'autres trucs de chez Eurotechni, barres et plaques droites, certaines poli brillant commandais le 7juin a 23h00, livré ce matin, c'était pas la peine d'allez si vite hein

[denis13]

Pour de vrais, c'est bien moins chiant à tremper , tu sais faire de chouettes lignes de termpe. Et ca coupe bien.

jamais testé , mais vu la composition il a l air sympa a travailler.

[giom]

le mieux c'est quand meme de prendre un autre acier hein.. .

Le 100c6 est un acier que j'apprécie beaucoup à l'utilisation. Par contre je n'ai pas l'experience de la fabrication, tout au plus de l'affutage ou des reprises d'émoutures à la pierre diamant. Je n'ai pas noté de difficulté particulière la dessus.

Concrêtement, il est plus difficile à travailler ? La température d'austenisation est plus élevée qu'un acier carbone "basique" type xc75 ?

[cassca]

This is a fairly detailed description of our heat treating methods and theory as they exist at this time. I put it all in one place and describe then each in turn. Any comments are welcome.

Why Forge

There are several reasons why a maker chooses to forge a blade rather than make one by the methods generally referred to as Stock Removal. Some forge simply because they enjoy learning and practicing one aspect of the art of the blacksmith.

Availability of desired material: A maker may not be able to obtain the metal of his choice in the dimensions he can work with, for some forging is the only way to be able get the metal in the dimensions and condition he wants.

Forging can conserve time and materials: Some materials are expensive and the stock removal method leaves a lot of steel lying on the floor of the makers shop along with the cost of time and other materials. Forging for high production without wasting materials and saving time are well documented, the ABS has some demonstrations where makers can complete a forged blade including hardening, tempering, completing the blade and adding a handle in less than an hour.

Forging for the beauty of Damascus: Naturally if a maker wants to make art knives using Damascus steel he can buy it from one of many makers who make it for sale or make his own. If he chooses to make his own he enters in to a realm with a lot of room for individual expression and creativity.

The legends of the performance qualities of the forged blade: is another reason some of us chose to forge Steel. Greatest of these legends in my book is the story of King Arthur and Excalibur. The quest for performance in the realm of the forged blade is the realm I chose to pursue and have for sought for most of my life we have invested over $70,000 in the development of the following heat treating methods. All of them may not be necessary for your desired performance level of your blades, therefor I suggest that you try what you can, test the performance qualities of your blades and make your decisions based upon your personal testing.

Our Heat Treating methods for forged 52100& 5160

A reader asked me to explain the heat treating methods we use when we seek the High Endurance Performance Knife. Rather than repeat what I have written in the past about forging, I will answer his question starting with one of our blades after it has been forged to the desired shape at low temperature starting with a 6 ½ inch round bar of high quality 52100 steel resulting in a high rate of reduction by forging.

Our performance testing indicates these methods work well with material that knows a high rate of reduction by forging at low temp. 1625 to about 1400 f. we quit forging when the steel does not move readily under the hammer. (You can predict 1625 f. when your steel is nonmagnetic and the slag that comes off of the blade while forging is either nonexistent or very fine like powder snow). I believe some of the following methods can also improve the performance qualities for the blades of some stock removal makers. You can try them if you wish, I suggest you test your experimental blades and compare them with your standard methods and see for yourself how well they work for you.

Fifteen steps to heat treating the High Endurance Performance Blade

Post Forging Quenches

Post Forging Steps 1 to 3: Immediately after forging the blade I heat the blade as forged to just above critical temperature check with a magnet and then quench the entire blade (except the tang) from edge to spine with the edge down in room temperature Texaco Type A quenching fluid. I hold the blade in the oil for at least 35 seconds, then place it back in the forge, and repeat this process for a total of three times. The temperature of the oil will rise with subsequent quenches; this does not seem to make any significant difference in the performance qualities of the blade. Note (Since we started this using this step we have never had a blade warp in subsequent heat treat.)

Normalizing Cycles

Post Forging Steps 4 to 6: the blade does not need to cool beyond its temperature after the last 35 second quench. I place it back in the forge and heat it to a dull orange temp, brush it off with a wire brush to remove scale from the first three oil quenches then heat it to a little above nonmagnetic (critical Temp) check with a magnet, then hold it in a dark area and watch as the blade cools down through critical temp. The blade will be Bright colored, slowly turn dark, then turn light again and at this point be magnetic. I check it on a magnet, and then repeat the process for a second time. Next I again heat it slightly above critical temp and place in it in 70 degree f. temperature still air and allow it to cool down to room temperature. This is known as a full normalizing cycle, (I never hurry this cycle by waving the blade in the air or placing it in a draft). Once it reaches room temperature I place it in the freezer of my refrigerator for at least 24 hours.

Low Temperature annealing

Post Forging Steps 7 to 9: I then place the blade in my Paragon Oven at room temperature; set the Paragon to heat the blade to 988 degrees f. in one hour, hold at 988 f. for two hours then shut off and let it cool to room temperature slowly with the oven door closed. I then place it again in my freezer overnight and repeat the process two more times for a total of three cycles. Low temperature annealing will preserve the grain structure you have developed to this point. After this tempering cycle the blade is close to dead soft, we can easily cut the steel with a cheap hack saw blade.

Preparing the blade for Hardening

I then grind the blade toward its final shape, defining the area that will be the ricasso and blade edge, I leave the future edge a little thicker than a quarter as I believe the best edge this bade can support lies a little under the surface of the blade after hardening. I am very careful to grind the blade to a smooth surface, removing any dents or scratches over a 220 grit before hardening. Photo 5206

Quench tank and adjustable table Photo 5250
Steps 10 to 12: We preheat our Texaco type A oil to 165 f. before quenching the blade.
I heat the lower 1/2 to 1/3rd of the blade using a 2 X flame on my oxygen - acetylene torch using a Victor 3-W tip on my average sized blades. I heat the blade from the center of the ricasso down the center line of the blade to a little behind the tip and am very careful to not overheat the future edge or the tip. Once the lower third of blade is a little over critical it is ready to quench, the spine remains slightly magnetic. I learned this method from Bill Moran and was in awe of his ability the first time I watched him. This method takes practice, but I feel that once you have mastered you it you will have developed a very special skill. We have found it is a very valuable attribute and proves to be a tremendous benefit to the kind of blade we want to make. You can learn to paint the desired color into the blade with your torch, just like an artist paints his colors into his art.
(photo 5208)

After we have heated the oil we check the oil level by rocking the cool blade on the table and adjust the oil level. (photo) 5222 We set the table in the oil to only submerge to about ½ the depth of the blade. Deeper blades are not quenched as far into the oil, but at least to one third. Blade ready to harden (photo \) 5214 I put the blade tip first into the oil on my adjustable table in the oil and then I rock the blade rapidly to harden the tip as well as full edge and part of the ricasso. Once the blade has cooled to a dark heat, I submerge the blade fully into the oil and let it cool to room temperature. The blade then goes in the freezer of my house hold refrigerator until the next day. This process is repeated for a total of three times.

(Note I never harden the tang, this is another lesson I learned from Bill Moran and it is my firm belief that one of the major factors of blade failure is encouraged by tangs that have been hardened. The memory of every thermal event is forever recorded in the steel)

Tempering the blade
(Photo 5253)
Steps 13 to 15. Last three steps in our heat treat are as follows. I place the blade in my Paragon at room temperature, set the Paragon to heat to 388 degrees in one hour, hold for 2 hours, then allow the blade to cool down in the closed Paragon until it reaches room temperature, then again place it in my house hold refrigerator freezer overnight and repeat for three times. Again I never cool the blade rapidly by opening the oven door or quenching.

This is a summary of the system we have found works best with the steels we use, high quality 5160 and 52100, we have tested hundreds of blades to complete destruction in the past 35 years and find any shortcuts may have a very significant influence in what I call the balanced performance of the High Endurance Performance Knife. Using these methods we have achieved an aggregate ASTM grain size of 15 and smaller in our 52100 steel. When we started our work with 52100 an ASTM Grain Size of 10 was he theoretical limit, we have exceeded that by a long ways. The Blades cut exceptionally well, are very strong, tough and are easy to sharpen.

I ask that you do not simply take our word for the process, but that you try various aspects you may choose using your steel in your shop with your equipment, test your experimental blades yourself and you will know.

Whenever a maker tells you how to heat treat your blades, ask them a simple question, “How to you test the performance qualities of your blades?” his answer will tell you if his way is how you want to make your blades.

While researching for another article I came across a statement that claimed James Black who some feel made a knife for James Bowie used a 12 step heat treating process and he never revealed his secret. I am a believer that a good heat treat is essential in order to get the best the steel has to offer. My experience leads me to believe that whoever made that statement may have been very knowledgeable.

I want to thank those who have helped us in our search for the High Endurance Performance Blade and a very special to the man of science who dared to work with us for over 25 years, Rex Walter, his knowledge and dedication to our work continues to be our greatest asset. Kevin Gray, another metallurgist has been studying these methods and will be writing for publication in the near future.


Note: Some believe that 52100 steel is difficult to work with and heat treat. All the steps we use are not necessary to develop a fine blade. 52100 is what I call an honest steel, the more you put into the development of the blade, greater the performance.


Thanks for sharing time with me, any questions or comments you may have will be welcome

Récapitulatif des traitements thermiques du 100C6 (pour moi)

Le 100C6, sans rentrer dans les détails des différentes nuances possibles, c’est en gros pour en retenir les principales caractéristiques :

- 1% de carbone

- 1,5% de chrome

C’est un acier hypereutectoïde, donc Ac1 = Ac3. Entre Ac1(Ac3) et Acm, on a plus ou moins de carbures dissous. Pour Ac1, la quantité de C dissoute correspond à la valeur eutectoïde. Pour Acm, tout le C est dissous dans l’austénite.

Remarque, en présence de chrome, le diagramme Fe/C est modifié. Tout est déplacé à gauche



Donc, si austénitisation à 750-760°C, on a de l’austénite contenant environ 0,5% de C dissous. Les 0,5% restant du carbone sont sous forme de carbures non dissous. Si on trempe à cette T, on aura de la martensite avec 0,5% de C (pas très dure) contenant nos 0,5° de C restant en carbures non dissous.

Par contre, si austénitisation à 840-850°C, on aura de l’austénite contenant environ 0,8% de C dissous ( intersection de l’horizontale de la T avec la ligne Acm) et il restera 0,2% de C sous forme de carbures non dissous. Trempe à cette T : martensite à 0,8 de C (plus dure)+ 0,2 sous forme de carbures non dissous.

Vous voyez que vers 900°C, on trempera un acier 100C6 avec ses 1% de C dissous. Il ne reste pas de carbures non dissous !

A partir de là, on choisit généralement de tremper vers 850°C donc au final martensite à 0,8%de C + 0,2 de C en carbures non dissous.

Les carbures mixtes de fer et de chrome noyés dans la matrice martensitique sont très importants pour la coupe et surtout pour la résistance à l’usure. Plus ils sont petits et donc nombreux, mieux c’est ! Par contre, plus ils sont gros et moins nombreux par coalescence, plus l’acier est facilement usinable.

Une fois la forge finie, le recuit (750°-780°C) avec refroidissement très lent donne des carbures coalescés, donc ductilité maximale.

Si on fait une trempe selective par chauffe selective basse au chalumeau d’une lame prélablement recuite, le dos restera avec de gros carbures et une bonne ductilité. Ce sera un couteau bien pour les tets de pliage de l’ABS par exemple.

Je préfère des lames qui plient moins, qui soient bien raides et nerveuses (pas pour les tests de l’ABS). Donc après le recuit pour le meulage, je refais une austénitisation au four à 880-900°C pendant 5mn pour bien dissoudre complètement tous les gros carbures, je trempe tout à l’huile qqs secondes et je sors à l’air. Tout le C est disséminé dans la martensite. Il n’ y a plus de gros carbures.
Ensuite je fais deux normalisations à basse T ( 780°C pendant 5mn) et refroidissement à l’air. La T est suffisante pour déclencher la recristallisation complète avec affinement du grain, mais la finesse des carbures est conservée.

Enfin, austénitisation pour la trempe de tout vers 830 - 840°C 5mn, avec donc dissolution partielle des carbures. Les carbures non dissous ne bougent pas. Trempe sélective du tranchant à l’huile chaude.
Après refroidissement, qqs heures au congél pour éviter le plus possible de l’éventuelle austénite résiduelle. Résultat avant revenu : tranchant à 64-65 HRC. Le dos est non trempé mais a refroidi rapidement et est donc sous forme de perlite fine avec de fins carbures : perlite « raide » et résistante.

Puis deux revenus de 1h1/2 à 240°C (limite gorge de pigeon). Dureté du tranchant 59 HRC.

Le grain est invisible même avec une loupe.

Le manche ayant subi ces chauffes se perce bien (bien mieux que le 90MCV

La lame est très raide, tonique, nerveuse (elle pliera pas à 90°, c’est sur). Elle s’use encore moins que le 90MCV8 et ne s’ebreche pas même en tapant de la ferraille.

Et ça coupe !

Adopté !

Le Doc

[G-M]

Ouais.
En conclusion c'est chiant à tremper quoi.